Friday, June 26, 2009

Some Conversations Pt II

another dialogue, began with Callidus Waydelich and then joined and expanded by several people:

Callidus Waydelich: Magnificent
Callidus Waydelich: hehe, chief engineer Orillion
Callidus Waydelich: This is truly sci-fi
Callidus Waydelich: there is much here that's been lost on most in the genre today
Callidus Waydelich: I have great appreciation for this work
Callidus Waydelich: there's lots here, like I said, lost on science fiction today
Callidus Waydelich: You've kept its essence
Miso Susanowa: ahhh, ty ^_^
Callidus Waydelich: can't have sci-fi without a philosophical aspect to it
Callidus Waydelich: It's beautiful, it's sad, it's insightful

Miso Susanowa: also, see... he is separated by the wall
Miso Susanowa: from the only living things near him

Callidus Waydelich: I can imagine it getting suddenly humid in here
Callidus Waydelich: like a greenhouse
Callidus Waydelich: but probably cold and uncomfortably sterile in here

Miso Susanowa: so my piece is about
Miso Susanowa: the paradox of virtual worlds
Miso Susanowa: and how i do not wish to ONLY live like this man
Miso Susanowa: sterile, plugged in
Miso Susanowa: isolated from living tissues
Miso Susanowa: and love

Callidus Waydelich: that's grand

Miso Susanowa: im so glad you came

Callidus Waydelich: I anticipated this
Callidus Waydelich: There's alot on SL that's lowbrow
Callidus Waydelich: this is not one of them

Miso Susanowa: to reprogram the earth would be highly dangerous
Miso Susanowa: so his mission might fail
Miso Susanowa: or ruin it worse
Miso Susanowa: a desperate gamble

Callidus Waydelich: This is deep

Miso Susanowa: thank you Callidus :)

Callidus Waydelich: I hope there are others who will appreciate it too
Callidus Waydelich: It's got an important message
Callidus Waydelich: I mean, this makes the social commentaries on Star Trek look like a 1st-grade lesson on courtesy

Miso Susanowa: you know it means much to me, your praise ^_^
Miso Susanowa: i grew up at... 11... reading Ellison, Dick, Disch... Delaney, Spinrad...
Miso Susanowa: the new wave
Miso Susanowa: very socially aware
Miso Susanowa: so i absorbed it all

Callidus Waydelich: I have no idea how that happened, too, I was 5 when I learned to read and it was like my mind was given a hundred times the storage capacity and the most advanced broadband connection available

Miso Susanowa: it was less hardware than... social; what will exposure to this tech DO to us, how will we change
Miso Susanowa: those names... Sturgeon, Bear, Clarke...
Miso Susanowa: Kate Wilhelm
Miso Susanowa: Ursula Le Guin
Miso Susanowa: giant writers with a message
Miso Susanowa: cyberpunk... many missed its message
Miso Susanowa: they thought about the TOYS
Miso Susanowa: not how the toys might be used...
Miso Susanowa: which was cyberpunk's point

Callidus Waydelich: interesting point
Callidus Waydelich: the cyberpunk, that is
Callidus Waydelich: I'd gotten that message but I'd never written it down like that

Miso Susanowa: they were warning us
Miso Susanowa: that to be awash in a field of tech toys
Miso Susanowa: was to turn people into data, and dehumanize us
Miso Susanowa: so you have a split society

Callidus Waydelich: Pandora' box

Miso Susanowa: you know i love tech
Miso Susanowa: but we must think about what it means
Miso Susanowa: and be judicious
Miso Susanowa: this is the end of the industrial revolution
Miso Susanowa: and we are seeing what the outcome of treating people like machines is

Callidus Waydelich: yes

Miso Susanowa: we are biological machines yes
Miso Susanowa: but we are not skinner boxes
Miso Susanowa: we arent JUST mechanics
Miso Susanowa: if we are... we should go back to the trees

Callidus Waydelich: Humanity's not a tool, yes

Miso Susanowa: people are not data
Miso Susanowa: its easy to cut people if your mind thinks of them as numbers
Miso Susanowa: to ignore hunger and pain and poverty
Miso Susanowa: to burn food to keep prices up while people starve

Callidus Waydelich: 1 death is a tragedy, one million is a statistic

Miso Susanowa: its clinical schitzophrenia
Miso Susanowa: all started by henry ford filing the gears on his clocks
Miso Susanowa: to make workers work "faster"
Miso Susanowa: and now we have trash that breaks in a year
Miso Susanowa: and goes into a landfill
Miso Susanowa: when a Maytag washer would last 30-50 years
Miso Susanowa: because it was CRAFTED

Callidus Waydelich nods

Miso Susanowa: Cal... its truly a pleasure to talk about this build
Miso Susanowa: maybe 3 people got it
Miso Susanowa: and none so much as you
Miso Susanowa: thanks :) its totally enjoyable :)

Callidus Waydelich: ah, it's a pleasure to see it

Miso Susanowa: thought and care
Miso Susanowa: and tech... those three together will take us to the stars
Miso Susanowa: and i can waitress in a space station lol
Miso Susanowa: just to look out the windows once in awhile :)

Callidus Waydelich: And I'll leave footprints on the moon

Miso Susanowa: "and dance among the stars"

Callidus Waydelich: Fly me to the moon...

Miso Susanowa: welcome to my installation, Al

Callidus Waydelich: Well, I'll tell you that Miso's work is nothing short of legendary

Al Lurton: love Miso's sound work .. just been introduced to it

Callidus Waydelich: These soundscapes of hers, they've got their tiniest brushstrokes as though it were a painted masterpiece.

Miso Susanowa: Cal, you got the notecard from the main computer yes?

Callidus Waydelich: hmm, not yet, do let me fetch it
Callidus Waydelich: which screen?

Miso Susanowa: over on the biowall

Callidus Waydelich: secured
Callidus Waydelich: Thanks for having me, Miso sweetie

Miso Susanowa: a real pleasure :)
Miso Susanowa: and the lovliness of your compliments
Miso Susanowa: i am so pleased

Al Lurton: bye Callidus

Miso Susanowa: and i am glad to have given you pleasure also
Miso Susanowa: *hugs*

Callidus Waydelich: Til next time!

Miso Susanowa: yessir :)
Miso Susanowa: lets sail soon

* * * * * * * * * * * * *

Al Lurton: I love it when people make a comment that really reflects your thinking while creating .. even if its not explicitly in the piece

Miso Susanowa: ah. but Callidus is an old science fiction fan

Al Lurton: for oh so many virtual existence will be the only yet ongoing journey. Immortality once the physical shell is no more

Miso Susanowa: we are part physical
Miso Susanowa: the world is not something to be escaped
Miso Susanowa: the feminine point of view perhaps

Al Lurton: when we die, billions of interconnected neurons will become more intrinsically linked memories stored and interacting enabling us to further celebrate and embrace worldly existence

Miso Susanowa: there is wisdom in the body
Miso Susanowa: we just don't listen very well :)
Miso Susanowa: i am not... enamored of it [tech]
Miso Susanowa: i like it, i use it
Miso Susanowa: but tech doesnt think or feel
Miso Susanowa: and we are seeing the results of that now
Miso Susanowa: and we must change that

Al Lurton: tech will be able to respond to thinking and feeling .. and grow/evolve thoughts and senses
Al Lurton: when it is possible to totally reverse engineer the brain and genomic makeup

Helena Kirkorian: hello Miso :)))

Miso Susanowa: hi :)

Helena Kirkorian: we're exploring here :)

Mariano Essel: very nice place

Helena Kirkorian: just curious

Mariano Essel: : )

Helena Kirkorian: amazing

Al Lurton: 'scientists' will also discover the connectedness between neurons between individuals brain/body self/soul universal consciousness will become integral to our daily existence

Helena Kirkorian: you think this will be the future?

Miso Susanowa: i fear it might be and so i wish this to be part of the dialogue of virtuality

Helena Kirkorian: yes
Helena Kirkorian: i always think we will be plugged in
Helena Kirkorian: like the matrix some sort

Miso Susanowa: it is a warning and a question about thinking only of the virtual worlds

Helena Kirkorian: yes!!!
Helena Kirkorian: we will mix a lot no?
Helena Kirkorian: in the future
Helena Kirkorian: real stuff with virtual stuff

Miso Susanowa: i hope so

Helena Kirkorian: but for example
Helena Kirkorian: the money you have in the bank...
Helena Kirkorian: is virtual money

Miso Susanowa: and can be hacked

Helena Kirkorian: yes!!!

Miso Susanowa: because banks are irresponsible with your details

Helena Kirkorian: yes....

Miso Susanowa: so there nust be balance between commerce and humanity

Helena Kirkorian: a virtual war

Miso Susanowa: yes
Miso Susanowa: we do it now

Helena Kirkorian: it is already possible

Miso Susanowa: with predator drones

Helena Kirkorian: yes!!!

Miso Susanowa: but to the jockeys
Miso Susanowa: it's a video game
Miso Susanowa: and so the horror of war is lessened
Miso Susanowa: and that makes war easier

Helena Kirkorian: we don't seem to have grip
Helena Kirkorian: like it has a mind of it's own

Miso Susanowa: machines have no mind
Miso Susanowa: it is the people running it

Helena Kirkorian: yes....

Miso Susanowa: this is what we must question
Miso Susanowa: a knife

Helena Kirkorian: the man with the button...

Miso Susanowa: can be used to spread butter
Miso Susanowa: or to stab a man
Miso Susanowa: its not the knife
Miso Susanowa: its the hand

Helena Kirkorian: you are right
Helena Kirkorian: this is interssting

Miso Susanowa: thanks :)
Miso Susanowa: yes... sl calls to the mythic, yes?

Helena Kirkorian: yes!!!!!
Helena Kirkorian: well we are investigating in a way
Helena Kirkorian: the thin line between reality and fiction

Miso Susanowa: pioneers

Helena Kirkorian: what is real?
Helena Kirkorian: and who are we?

Miso Susanowa: physics tells us it is all a movie :)

Helena Kirkorian: i am but pixels
Helena Kirkorian: yes!

Miso Susanowa: no
Miso Susanowa: you are a spirit

Helena Kirkorian: yep :)

Miso Susanowa: you are MANIFESTING in pixels
Miso Susanowa: and in your body too

Helena Kirkorian: it is so fascinating to see all this

Miso Susanowa: but we are more

Helena Kirkorian: yes :))

Miso Susanowa: thats why we are human
Miso Susanowa: and not machines

Helena Kirkorian: it is an interface
Helena Kirkorian: we use forms to express
Helena Kirkorian: i love to look at ava
Helena Kirkorian: how people make their ava
Helena Kirkorian: how they express

Miso Susanowa: i call it The Magic Mirror

Mariano Essel: haha interesting

Helena Kirkorian: yes Mariano but it is true hun :)
Helena Kirkorian: your ava is the reflection of the real you?

Miso Susanowa: light descends into matter

Helena Kirkorian: what you are?
Helena Kirkorian: what you wanna be?

Miso Susanowa: it is an art

Helena Kirkorian: yes!!
Helena Kirkorian: ava art!

Miso Susanowa: like the canvas reveals the painter
Miso Susanowa: her mind, her soul

Mariano Essel: the real person is behind it

Helena Kirkorian: yep

Mariano Essel: of course

Helena Kirkorian: my real friends here
Helena Kirkorian: they say...
Helena Kirkorian: there is no difference
Helena Kirkorian: hahaha :)))

Al Lurton: machines will soon be able to represent and nuture our humanity?

Helena Kirkorian: ahahahaha
Helena Kirkorian: yes al

Miso Susanowa: only if we are careful Al
Miso Susanowa: if the enamorization of tech takes hold
Miso Susanowa: it is cyberpunk

Helena Kirkorian: yes.......

Al Lurton: That is the dangerous idea that could well and truly become true

Miso Susanowa: people are not machines

Helena Kirkorian: true

Miso Susanowa: to treat them so is to devolve
Miso Susanowa: to become things

Helena Kirkorian: interesting

Miso Susanowa: that is what cyberpunk was SAYING
Miso Susanowa: but people loved only the surface
Miso Susanowa: they forgot gibsons dark alleys
Miso Susanowa: his people selling kidneys to eat
Miso Susanowa: the grime and decay

Al Lurton: if machine can hold our thoughts, memories and extend them into other thoughts and memories .. how wonderful and terrifying

Miso Susanowa: i know sao paulo
Miso Susanowa: on top it shines
Miso Susanowa: at the foot are cardboard shacks where people sip from puddles
Miso Susanowa: is this right? moral?

Helena Kirkorian: so true Miso!!

Miso Susanowa: that is not the techs problem
Miso Susanowa: it is Mans

Helena Kirkorian: it is our prob
Helena Kirkorian: true!!!
Helena Kirkorian: we cannot put everything on machine!
Helena Kirkorian: WE are responsible
Helena Kirkorian: it's Us

Miso Susanowa: it is only my questions
Miso Susanowa: the dialogue i wish to inject into the go-go future
Miso Susanowa: we must speak of such things

Helena Kirkorian: yes
Helena Kirkorian: and the artist must raise questions

Miso Susanowa: and i am a tech also
Miso Susanowa: so i have the right

Helena Kirkorian: not so much look for answers
Helena Kirkorian: yes!!!
Helena Kirkorian: it is your birth right as an artist

Miso Susanowa: and as a tech
Miso Susanowa: i work with it
Miso Susanowa: i know its limitations

Helena Kirkorian: it is very amazing all this

Miso Susanowa: and it cannot love a baby

Helena Kirkorian: no.....

Miso Susanowa: it cannot hold someone who is crying
Miso Susanowa: that takes humanity

Helena Kirkorian: so true

Miso Susanowa: so tech must AMPLIFY us
Miso Susanowa: not take us over and make us over into its mechanical image

Helena Kirkorian: but we give power to the inanimate
Helena Kirkorian: why?

Miso Susanowa: because it frees us of responsibility of course
Miso Susanowa: to seeing suffering
Miso Susanowa: to fear

Helena Kirkorian: yes obvious reason
Helena Kirkorian: yes....

Al Lurton: in the same way the internet is moving from pull to push .. what is suggested here as in the literature is more of a context rather than content based future Miso. As humans we need to ensure some way to control, maintain and nuture that context?
Al Lurton: as an artist I can ask that question lol

Miso Susanowa: we burn wheat
Miso Susanowa: it is a SIN; that is, it "misses the mark"
Miso Susanowa: yes, we do
Miso Susanowa: that is it precisely

Helena Kirkorian: wow!!
Helena Kirkorian: you must ask questions

Al Lurton: cool maybe I get it in part ㋡

Miso Susanowa: all is context
Miso Susanowa: thats what i know as an artist

Helena Kirkorian: yes......

Miso Susanowa: one shape in one place is sensual and sublime
Miso Susanowa: in another it is pornographic because it suggests control and restriction

Helena Kirkorian: wow!!!

Miso Susanowa: in another it might be prurient
Miso Susanowa: it is context that informs us

Al Lurton: yes definition of control is so important as well

Miso Susanowa: even if only the context in our own associations
Miso Susanowa: yes as an artist i NEED control
Miso Susanowa: but if i control too far... the muse leaves my hand
Miso Susanowa: it is like surfing
Miso Susanowa: one does not control the ocean
Miso Susanowa: if you try you will be very hurt

Al Lurton: We control by making choices .... need to recognise the combined consiousness of all living existence

Miso Susanowa: but you control the board

Helena Kirkorian: but perhaps it is a twisted romantic idea?

Miso Susanowa: through your eyes, your wind sense, your timing

Helena Kirkorian: that machines come alive?

Al Lurton: the surfboard on the ocean?

Miso Susanowa: and you skate on the wave, you ride the interface of sea and sky and gravity and coriolis force

Helena Kirkorian: yep

Miso Susanowa: all things that you cannot control
Miso Susanowa: but you can control the board

Helena Kirkorian: but there is more

Miso Susanowa: and yourself

Helena Kirkorian: there is more then just surface

Miso Susanowa: a surfer doesnt ride a wave

Helena Kirkorian: there must be more then surface alone

Miso Susanowa: she rides the oceans swell
Miso Susanowa: and gravity
Miso Susanowa: and the tide

Helena Kirkorian: you must understand the wave no?

Miso Susanowa: all these are not thinking in her

Miso Susanowa: i lived in california 17 years
Miso Susanowa: i learned to surf there

Helena Kirkorian: yes

Miso Susanowa: but if you THINK
Miso Susanowa: while surfing

Helena Kirkorian: but then you are only talking about technical things

Miso Susanowa: you get really hurt lol

Helena Kirkorian: yes....

Miso Susanowa: like piano

Al Lurton: surfers ride responses from the centre of Earths viscera

Miso Susanowa: if you think while performing

Helena Kirkorian: it is a twisted romantic idea then?

Miso Susanowa: you will make many mistakes

Miso Susanowa: yes

Helena Kirkorian: that we can friend the objects

Miso Susanowa: the romance of tech
Miso Susanowa: is hollow

Helena Kirkorian: yes...

Miso Susanowa: as it is in all OBJECTS

Helena Kirkorian: but you know Miso......

Miso Susanowa: which are things

Helena Kirkorian: i am hollow in here
Helena Kirkorian: look inside my ava
Helena Kirkorian: i am but surface
Helena Kirkorian: pixilated surface

Miso Susanowa: yes

Helena Kirkorian: nothing but electrical impulses
Helena Kirkorian: in fact you could say...
Helena Kirkorian: i am a machine too

Miso Susanowa: that is what i learned from quantum physics :)
Miso Susanowa: not even particles

Helena Kirkorian: a biomachine

Miso Susanowa: nor waves

Miso Susanowa: something
Miso Susanowa: dancing on nothing

Francz Kuhn: but.. in rl are you anything more than matter/energy?

Al Lurton: who controls the pixels Helena?

Helena Kirkorian: i do behind my machine

Miso Susanowa: thats the issue Al

Helena Kirkorian: but who am i??
Helena Kirkorian: a quickly aging biomachine?

Al Lurton: and who controls you Helena?

Helena Kirkorian: even the trees in my garden live longer

Miso Susanowa: or the sum only of all your learning?

Francz Kuhn: that's a thing, not a who

Miso Susanowa: or the synthesis?

Helena Kirkorian: yes......
Helena Kirkorian: it is WILD all this

Miso Susanowa: i am glad you are enjoying this, as am i :)

Helena Kirkorian: i am really enjoying this convo a lot

Miso Susanowa: i have already made a notecard of it lol

Helena Kirkorian: in this day and age where we lost our believes in god

Al Lurton: that is why you need to hug those trees .. wisdom, sense, soul and oneness exists beyond the person who controls the pixels of your av...